I've been taking private lessons from someone_somewhere.
Today's puzzle is extremely tough. I found a 9-star constellation ("alpha star" at r8c6), then a 5-star constellation (same alpha star), and finally a 7-star constellation (alpha star at r6c9) before this one finally crumbled.
Great puzzle, Ruud! dcb
24 March, 2006
-
- Gold Member
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:21 pm
- Location: Denver, Colorado
- Contact:
At the feet of the masters
David,
Maybe I can take lessons from you!
I get to this point:
There is one deduction that breaks the puzzle wide open:
R6C2 is not <9>. (And then you have a pair <36> in R6, etc)
How on earth does a normal person make this deduction??
Keith
Maybe I can take lessons from you!
I get to this point:
Code: Select all
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 4 369 379 | 269 5 1 | 27 69 8 |
| 69 1 79 | 269 8 4 | 3 5 27 |
| 2 8 5 | 369 7 369 | 1 4 69 |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 369 5 4 | 1 236 236789 | 6789 689 3679 |
| 1 7 39 | 3469 346 3689 | 689 2 5 |
| 8 369 2 | 3679 36 5 | 4 1 3679 |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 7 4 8 | 5 9 26 | 26 3 1 |
| 39 239 6 | 8 1 23 | 5 7 4 |
| 5 23 1 | 3467 2346 2367 | 2689 689 269 |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
R6C2 is not <9>. (And then you have a pair <36> in R6, etc)
How on earth does a normal person make this deduction??
Keith
-
- Gold Member
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:21 pm
- Location: Denver, Colorado
- Contact:
The 9 (7?) star constellation
Hi, Keith!
Yes, this is the spot where I found the first big "constellation" in this puzzle. When I posted my message earlier I called it a "9-star constellation," but looking at it again I see how it can be reduced to seven "stars." Anyway, here's how that works.
The "Alpha Star" is at r8c6. The "target" is r2c9.
A. r8c6 = 2 ==> r7c7 = 2 ==> r1c7 = 7 ==> r2c9 = 2.
B. r8c6 = 3 ==> r4c1 = 3 ==> r5c3 = 9 ==> r2c3 = 7 ==> r2c9 = 2.
So r2c9 has to be "2". If you follow this up and do some coloring on the digit "6" you'll soon reach a point where assuming that r8c6 = 3 causes a contradiction ... that's the second "constellation" I was talking about earlier.
Oh -- I should point out that some of the coloring on "6" is already possible in the grid you posted. There are only two ways to fit a "6" in column 2, and there are also just two ways to fit a "6" in the top right 3x3 box.
r1c2 = 6 ==> r3c9 = 6 ==> r6c9 <> 6
r1c2 <> 6 ==> r6c2 = 6 ==> r6c9 <> 6
You'll be able to extend this pattern after you put the "2" in at r2c9. dcb
PS I don't know how to prove that r6c2 <> 9. Not directly, anyway. And looking at my notes, I see that I still had "9" as a possibility at r6c2 even after I found the third "constellation," which cracked the puzzle wide open for me.
Yes, this is the spot where I found the first big "constellation" in this puzzle. When I posted my message earlier I called it a "9-star constellation," but looking at it again I see how it can be reduced to seven "stars." Anyway, here's how that works.
Code: Select all
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 4 369 379 | 269 5 1 | 27 69 8 |
| 69 1 79 | 269 8 4 | 3 5 27x |
| 2 8 5 | 369 7 369 | 1 4 69 |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 369 5 4 | 1 236 236789 | 6789 689 3679 |
| 1 7 39 | 3469 346 3689 | 689 2 5 |
| 8 369 2 | 3679 36 5 | 4 1 3679 |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 7 4 8 | 5 9 26 | 26 3 1 |
| 39 239 6 | 8 1 23* | 5 7 4 |
| 5 23 1 | 3467 2346 2367 | 2689 689 269 |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
A. r8c6 = 2 ==> r7c7 = 2 ==> r1c7 = 7 ==> r2c9 = 2.
B. r8c6 = 3 ==> r4c1 = 3 ==> r5c3 = 9 ==> r2c3 = 7 ==> r2c9 = 2.
So r2c9 has to be "2". If you follow this up and do some coloring on the digit "6" you'll soon reach a point where assuming that r8c6 = 3 causes a contradiction ... that's the second "constellation" I was talking about earlier.
Oh -- I should point out that some of the coloring on "6" is already possible in the grid you posted. There are only two ways to fit a "6" in column 2, and there are also just two ways to fit a "6" in the top right 3x3 box.
r1c2 = 6 ==> r3c9 = 6 ==> r6c9 <> 6
r1c2 <> 6 ==> r6c2 = 6 ==> r6c9 <> 6
You'll be able to extend this pattern after you put the "2" in at r2c9. dcb
PS I don't know how to prove that r6c2 <> 9. Not directly, anyway. And looking at my notes, I see that I still had "9" as a possibility at r6c2 even after I found the third "constellation," which cracked the puzzle wide open for me.
Hi guys,
always interesting to see how people find different ways to solve these Nightmares.
The fish-style eliminations of digit 6 are a red herring. They accomplish nothing.
This was my intention:
There are 3 candidates for digit 9 in row 6. I named them a, b, c. Check how each of these 3 candidates kills candidate 9 in *r1c2.
The next step is an XY wing rooted in #r2c1 with pincers in @r1c2 and @r8c1. (didn't we just cause that bivalue in r1c2?)
r8c2 and r9c2 are the victims here. The remainder of the puzzle can be solved with only a hidden pair.
Cheers,
Ruud.
always interesting to see how people find different ways to solve these Nightmares.
The fish-style eliminations of digit 6 are a red herring. They accomplish nothing.
This was my intention:
Code: Select all
.---------------------.---------------------.---------------------.
| 4 *369 379 | 269 5 1 | 27 bc69 8 |
| 69 1 79 | 269 8 4 | 3 5 27 |
| 2 8 5 | 369 7 b369 | 1 4 69 |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 369 5 4 | 1 236 236789| 6789 689 3679 |
| 1 7 39 | 3469 346 3689 | 689 2 5 |
| 8 a369 2 |b3679 36 5 | 4 1 c3679 |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 7 4 8 | 5 9 26 | 26 3 1 |
| 39 239 6 | 8 1 23 | 5 7 4 |
| 5 23 1 | 3467 2346 2367 | 2689 689 269 |
'---------------------'---------------------'---------------------'
The next step is an XY wing rooted in #r2c1 with pincers in @r1c2 and @r8c1. (didn't we just cause that bivalue in r1c2?)
Code: Select all
.---------------------.---------------------.---------------------.
| 4 @36 379 | 269 5 1 | 27 69 8 |
|#69 1 79 | 269 8 4 | 3 5 27 |
| 2 8 5 | 369 7 369 | 1 4 69 |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 369 5 4 | 1 236 236789| 6789 689 3679 |
| 1 7 39 | 3469 346 3689 | 689 2 5 |
| 8 369 2 | 3679 36 5 | 4 1 3679 |
:---------------------+---------------------+---------------------:
| 7 4 8 | 5 9 26 | 26 3 1 |
|@39 -239 6 | 8 1 23 | 5 7 4 |
| 5 -23 1 | 3467 2346 2367 | 2689 689 269 |
'---------------------'---------------------'---------------------'
Cheers,
Ruud.
“If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't.” - Emerson M Pugh
-
- Gold Member
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:21 pm
- Location: Denver, Colorado
- Contact:
There's always more than one way to skin a cat.
Hi, Ruud!
The "template" (aka Nishio) eliminations are interesting. But any logical path to the solution is valid, so long as it works.
Beginning at this position:
We have a "7-star constellation" rooted in r8c6.
A. r8c6 = 2 ==> r7c7 = 2 ==> r7c1 = 7 ==> r2c9 = 2.
B. r8c6 = 3 ==> r4c1 = 3 ==> r5c3 = 9 ==> r2c3 = 7 ==> r2c9 = 2.
1. r2c9 = 2 (by DIC); r1c7 = 7 (sole candidate).
2. r1c4 = 2; r2c3 = 7 (unique horizontal).
3. Naked triplet {6, 8, 9} in center right 3x3 box.
4. Coloring eliminates "6" at r4c8, r5c4, r7c7, & r9c7 (it's not really a red herring!).
5. r7c7 = 2; r7c6 = 6 (sole candidate).
6. Coloring in rows 2 & 6 reveals that r1c2 <> 9.
Now a "5-star constellation" reveals that r8c6 <> 3:
r8c6 = 3 ==> r8c1 = 9 ==> r2c1 = 6 ==> r2c4 = 9 ==> r3c6 = 3.
We can't have two "3"s in column 6, therefore r8c6 = 2
7. r8c6 = 2 (sole candidate); r4c5 = 2; r9c2 = 2 (unique horizontal).
Here I found another "7-star constellation." The Alpha Star is r6c9.
A. r6c9 = 7 ==> r4c6 = 7 ==> r9c6 = 3 ==> r3c6 = 9.
B. r6c9 = 3 ==> r6c5 = 6 ==> {3, 9} pair in r5c3 & r6c2 ==> r4c1 = 6;
B1 r6c9 = 3 ==> r4c9 = 7 ==> r6c6 = 3 ==> r3c6 = 9.
And with r3c6 set equal to "9" this stubborn puzzle finally gives up the ghost! dcb
The "template" (aka Nishio) eliminations are interesting. But any logical path to the solution is valid, so long as it works.
Beginning at this position:
Code: Select all
4 369 379 269 5 1 27 69 8
69 1 79 269 8 4 3 5 27
2 8 5 369 7 369 1 4 69
369 5 4 1 236 236789 6789 689 3679
1 7 39 3469 346 3689 689 2 5
8 369 2 379 36 5 4 1 379
7 4 8 5 9 26 26 3 1
39 239 6 8 1 23* 5 7 4
5 23 1 3467 2346 2376 2689 689 269
A. r8c6 = 2 ==> r7c7 = 2 ==> r7c1 = 7 ==> r2c9 = 2.
B. r8c6 = 3 ==> r4c1 = 3 ==> r5c3 = 9 ==> r2c3 = 7 ==> r2c9 = 2.
1. r2c9 = 2 (by DIC); r1c7 = 7 (sole candidate).
2. r1c4 = 2; r2c3 = 7 (unique horizontal).
3. Naked triplet {6, 8, 9} in center right 3x3 box.
4. Coloring eliminates "6" at r4c8, r5c4, r7c7, & r9c7 (it's not really a red herring!).
5. r7c7 = 2; r7c6 = 6 (sole candidate).
6. Coloring in rows 2 & 6 reveals that r1c2 <> 9.
Now a "5-star constellation" reveals that r8c6 <> 3:
Code: Select all
4 36 39 2 5 1 7 69 8
69 1 7 69 8 4 3 5 2
2 8 5 369 7 39 1 4 69
369 5 4 1 236 23789 689 89 37
1 7 39 349 346 389 689 2 5
8 369 2 379 36 5 4 1 37
7 4 8 5 9 6 2 3 1
39 239 6 8 1 23* 5 7 4
5 23 1 347 234 237 89 689 69
We can't have two "3"s in column 6, therefore r8c6 = 2
7. r8c6 = 2 (sole candidate); r4c5 = 2; r9c2 = 2 (unique horizontal).
Here I found another "7-star constellation." The Alpha Star is r6c9.
Code: Select all
4 36 39 2 5 1 7 69 8
69 1 7 69 8 4 3 5 2
2 8 5 369 7 39 1 4 69
369 5 4 1 2 3789 689 89 37
1 7 39 349 346 389 689 2 5
8 369 2 379 36 5 4 1 37*
7 4 8 5 9 6 2 3 1
39 39 6 8 1 2 5 7 4
5 2 1 347 34 37 89 689 69
B. r6c9 = 3 ==> r6c5 = 6 ==> {3, 9} pair in r5c3 & r6c2 ==> r4c1 = 6;
B1 r6c9 = 3 ==> r4c9 = 7 ==> r6c6 = 3 ==> r3c6 = 9.
And with r3c6 set equal to "9" this stubborn puzzle finally gives up the ghost! dcb
Answering Keith's Question
Again, this puzzle is long forgotten, I'm sure, but while looking at this thread I saw the answer to the question Keith posed.
If r1c2=9, then immediately we have r6c2 <> 9.
If r1c2 is not 9, then r1c2 is 3 or 6, so that r1c2, r2c1, and r8c1 form the XY wing which Ruud mentioned. This eliminates 3 from r8c2 and r9c2. So r9c2=2 and then r8c2=9 and r6c2 <> 9.
Here's another way, which seems simpler to me for Keith's specific question. In column 2, r1c2 and r6c2 are a conjugate pair (strongly linked) for the digit 6. So
r6c2=9 --> r1c2=6 --> r2c1=9
These two placements of 9's would eliminate both 9 candidates in box 7.
Ron
Code: Select all
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 4 369 379 | 269 5 1 | 27 69 8 |
| 69 1 79 | 269 8 4 | 3 5 27 |
| 2 8 5 | 369 7 369 | 1 4 69 |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 369 5 4 | 1 236 236789 | 6789 689 3679 |
| 1 7 39 | 3469 346 3689 | 689 2 5 |
| 8 369 2 | 3679 36 5 | 4 1 3679 |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
| 7 4 8 | 5 9 26 | 26 3 1 |
| 39 239 6 | 8 1 23 | 5 7 4 |
| 5 23 1 | 3467 2346 2367 | 2689 689 269 |
+----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+
Maybe Ruud answered the question indirectly, but here's a more direct answer. Consider r1c2.There is one deduction that breaks the puzzle wide open:
R6C2 is not <9>. (And then you have a pair <36> in R6, etc)
How on earth does a normal person make this deduction??
Keith
If r1c2=9, then immediately we have r6c2 <> 9.
If r1c2 is not 9, then r1c2 is 3 or 6, so that r1c2, r2c1, and r8c1 form the XY wing which Ruud mentioned. This eliminates 3 from r8c2 and r9c2. So r9c2=2 and then r8c2=9 and r6c2 <> 9.
Here's another way, which seems simpler to me for Keith's specific question. In column 2, r1c2 and r6c2 are a conjugate pair (strongly linked) for the digit 6. So
r6c2=9 --> r1c2=6 --> r2c1=9
These two placements of 9's would eliminate both 9 candidates in box 7.
Ron